Raymond Lodge
For many years we are interested in Oliver Lodge’s
(English Physician 1851 – 1940) books and have his pertinent works
concerning contacts to the spirit world read with great interest.
Especially the contacts to his 1915 deceased son Raymond via various
English mediums fascinated us very much. Due to the many discussions
about Raymond within our circle he came to talk to us during our
Claudius Sitting on April 14, 2007.
Protocol/Script Claudius Sitting
14.05.2007
Participants: Walter, Ernst
Spirit Visitor: Raymond Lodge
W: Introduction
Cl: ∞ Ave, my dear friends.
W/E: Ave, Claudius.
Cl: It is nice to be with you again, and we of
course have listened to your conversation. I would
like at the beginning to respond to two topics that principally are not
to be classified too far from each other. With some fantasy you could
say the so called white noise replaces the spiritual fact in the life
stream, Walter, you talked about)
(Note: Topics during the afternoon within our
circle was the white noise as information carrier, brought into
conversation by Ernst, and the life stream, a physical sensation the
English healer E.G. Fricker had when healing. It was conveyed to him by
his spirit helpers as sign of the energy flow and which he described as
“life stream”.)
In the white noise information is included as it
is in the so called life stream.
In principle both are a support to describe the
feeling of the flow of energy, and also over here some spirit entities
sense it that way. Other spirits have different opinions about
information transfer.
In this case it is to be understood that both
terms principally serve the same purpose.
I will only give you a short introduction today, I
have somebody (spirit voice in the background) invited to talk to you
later.
W/E: Thank you.
Cl: We also had an exchange of ideas over here
about the parallel worlds, be it past or future, representing the
biospheres in your time, only in altered form. We can accept your idea
that this principally is an illusion. But even illusions are in a way
reality, otherwise they would not exist. Also you are an illusion,
although you yourselves feel very much existing.
For us you are present in other worlds likewise.
Since we however communicate (spirit voice in the background) with you
at the moment, this in this moment is for you as well as for us so
called reality.
This was a short introduction to react to your
topics this afternoon. I would like to pass you onto our guest speaker.
It is kind of surprise, but there is nothing we could not arrange.
Walter, I know that is your heart’s desire to
bring more light into the dark of the paranormal, so I hand you over to
Raymond Lodge.
W: This is very nice, thank you
very much.
E: Thank you.
RL: Hello friends!
W/E: Hello Raymond!
RL: Please allow me to start in English, since I
have no experience to converse in your language, and also since it is a
long time ago I talked at all – most talking my father did from here
within this and the last century.
W: That's right.
RL: So, please allow me to talk in English, and
perhaps later on we can switch over to your German language which I like
to hear and would like to speak myself.
W: First of all thank you for
coming to us, and we hope you will excuse our limited English compared
to your perfect English.
RL: We will try to do our best.
W: Very good. So, thank you very
much for coming.
RL: You're welcome.
W: While reading much about you,
what your father published regarding your spiritual-earthly connections,
I was and I'm still totally impressed about into what the co-operative
nature this work developed, it is absolutely amazing.
RL: Yes. Well, when I follow specially your
conversations in this room and the interest you have, I find it quite
different from that what people were interested within the time period
when I passed over. So, it was more the proof and evident effect during
that time, for us spirits sometimes very hard to provide, because people
were very sceptic. It took quite some effort from our spirit world to
convince them.
So, now it is much easier, because you don't stick
to certain celebrations or a certain metaphor. It is much more relaxing
now to communicate with you here, because I have the feeling, you are in
a way much more open to get information what brings yourselves forward
in your consciousness.
W: Yes.
RL: This was not so much the case at that time I
passed over. People were not so much interested in their own state of
consciousness, they just wanted to have proof and …
W: …evidence.
RL: Yes, and evidence about the fact: Is there
life after death?
W: Right. It was a different
emphasis and a different target.
RL: Yes, that's right. So, now for me, I enjoy to
talk to you in this atmosphere, and please, if I can help you with some
uncertainties, ask me. I hope I can give you an adequate answer.
W: Right. Thank you very much, and
you are most welcome.
RL: You are welcome, and I would like to pass on
to you regards from all spirits here around me.
W: Thank you very much.
There are a couple of very
interesting aspects in your father's book “Raymond“. One thing is
fascinating, and this is, when you described how you had the chance to
look into the so called “upper floor“ or to the upper spheres. Maybe you
can help us somehow in describing your experience.
RL: Well, it is not so much different from what
was described to you already by Claudius and by Adelheid. She
experienced similar effects.
If you are ready to open your mind totally and
want to go forward, let's say, you are ready to leave the astral plane,
then you might have the opportunity to look into other worlds where you
gather some inside information, and if this is that what you want, you
are able to decide sooner or later to move on.
After moving on, you then have the opportunity to,
let's say, have a look from third class into 10th class perhaps. There
you might have some difficulties to cope with what you receive on
information, but your helpers always will explain to you.
So, having decided to go forward and let's say, if
you are ready for it, you have the opportunity to do so. But if you do
like to stay where you are or move on a bit slower, you have this choice
as well. I think, this already was explained to you.
W: Yes.
RL: So it is your own decision, if you are ready
you are always welcome to speed forward or to do it the more calm and
slower way.
In what you both are probably interested in is:
What is the contents of this higher planes, as we say?
W: Right. Perceiving your
description, I have the feeling it comes from an engineering or
exploring mind, and I would consider myself a bit similar to that,
always interested, what can I learn out of something.
RL: Yes.
W: And since this book “Raymond” –
as revised version, finally written in 1936 or so -, for our time
schedule quite some time ago, and meanwhile you have developed, you
described it by the time as pretty much also new to you. First I would
again be interested to get it in your words again directly what you
meant by it when you saw this “highest …
RL: …. stream.
W: … stream“, how would you
describe it in your words? I know, this is difficult.
RL: You mean the “stream of life force“?
W: Yes.
RL: “Life force“ is an earthly expression, of
course, but even in spirit world it is valid, because we live. So it is
very difficult to translate into earthly words what this means for us,
therefore I call it life force to give you a feeling for it.
W: The difficulty I have is, when I
ever hear the word life, I think of animated things, but life force does
it include also the non animated, like material word?
RL: This is what I meant. It is very difficult to
explain. Usually you use this expression for human beings.
W: Yes.
RL: But over here we are of course spirits, so you
could from your point of view rather say “Spirit Force“ for better
understanding. Since in these higher planes you have no body anymore, no
physical thinking as you still have in lower spheres where you have
still this physical earthly sensations, you feel as if you are part of
this life force, you are a particle of it together with all the others.
W: Does that include also to our
standards the not animated, non living material, the earthly matter for
example, is it more creation like? I have a problem with that life
force.
RL: What exactly do you mean with non animated?
W: No plants, no animals, no life
really.
RL: No nature?
W: It does not include the complete
nature or creation?
RL: There is no differentiation anymore. Of
course, there are not included any plants or animals as perceived by
you. It is not important anymore, the form, structure, the origin
substance. It is not even you in your earthly origin. This has nothing
to do anymore with earthly life impressions. You are in your essence, in
your spirit essence that has nothing to do anymore with your physical
life.
W: Yes.
RL: And it has nothing to do really with non
animated things, because in that moment you even are not animated
anymore, it is the pure information of all, you cannot differentiate
anymore.
W: So, it includes the complete
creation.
RL: Yes, yes, you could say so, you could say so.
But I would like to say if you are not yet ready, let's say, to exist
there, you experience it as a film, like an illusion. When you get back
(to your normal spirit plane), you feel as if you had a
dream at night where you were able to float. I do not mean an Out of
Body Experience, because this you experience (as human) as
real, I mean a dream where you fly, and you experience the whole
universe in a floating sensation.
Of course over here you do not have any sensation
of a floating body anymore, you do not have the impression of an
universe. It is only pure spirit which has principally nothing to do
anymore with your earthly life.
W: Do you see yourself still as an
individual or do you see yourself as part of several?
RL: You are a part of it all. Is that what you
asked for?
W: Do you still feel as Raymond?
RL: No, not really. No, it is not important
anymore. Of course, if you are present only as a learning scholar, you
have difficulties being back in your usual sphere, your normal plane to
really remember all you experienced. You have remembrance compared to
the amount of information you take back when you awake from a lovely
dream as a human. While taking back only fractions, you have a feeling
for the whole.
As I remember, you do not feel very much
individual anymore. Perhaps – I just don´t know how to explain – you
could say, it is a borderline experience. I think if you even go further
the whole individuality is totally gone, I have a feeling for that.
W: Yes.
RL: There is no contents of any physical or
animated life anymore.
W: If this is at all possible to
explain, what kind of feeling do you have, is it being absolutely over
the moon or…?
RL: The feeling “being over the moon“ that you
have as human, you take with you into the astral plane. You even partly
have it still if you move on into spirit world, but very limited,
because you leave all preferences mostly behind, you develop more and
more, let's say, into a group spirit with a collective consciousness.
Of course, you are still an individual if you need
to be. The moment, Claudius or I talk to you now, we feel more like an
individual. But if I do not talk to you, this is not valid and I´m part
of the collective consciousness. If needed, I can take myself out.
But if you are up in these higher spheres you do
not have that choice anymore. That means, you do not even have the
opportunity, because there is no possibility, by being not connected
anymore with earth at all. So you have to decide, and it is perhaps
sometimes rather important and sensible to stay a little longer in the
region where you can be of profit to others.
W: So there is not a driving force
that maybe pushes you in any direction. It is more or less your free
decision to go ahead or not.
RL: Yes, it is more a free decision, but at times
we have the feeling you get drawn to it.
W: As an attraction.
RL: As an attraction, you get drawn to it. It is
both, it's rather funny, you can't really explain it, because it happens
automatically, as if there is an automatism behind. It depends on where
you have activated your spirit light, your spirit flame, as it was
explained to you - I just use some of the words you are used to -, that
means it is of importance in which realm you have activated you
consciousness. As you know, you are already present in every stage. And
it depends how you are attracted to go forward, and, of course, it has
something as well to do with your earthly life.
If you were a very prominent person and liked
people around that admired you, it probably takes a bit longer. There is
no judgement for that. If you were a rather humble person, it probably
will not take you long to change from the astral plane to the spirit
plane.
W: Yes.
RL: So it depends, but this has nothing much to
say, because every spirit in astral plane is important. Most spirits
have to go through this stage, otherwise if it would be too easy,
everybody would quickly change into spirit world, and it would be
deserted, the astral plane.
W: You said, you are helping
others. Can you describe that a little bit?
RL. Yes, of course, you always have to offer your
experience. Although you do not suffer anymore by your own cause of
death, you remember what was necessary to get you to feel well when you
came over to spirit world, astral plane first, of course and what you
mostly needed at that moment.
It is a good feeling, since you have made the
experience yourself, to help others that come over in the same
condition. This is not all that is important, but if I'm needed I'm
there. Now since I'm now a more grown spirit, I have other occupations
as well, more in that way that is more connected with spiritual
contents, you know what I mean. It is not so much connected with needs
you have on earth or in astral plane.
W: Yes, that would have been my
next question, if this is already disconnected from earthly elements.
RL: It has nothing so much to do anymore with it,
yes. Although it is always a new challenge again to have contact to
earth if it is in a more intellectual way. I would not want to get
connected with earthly matters that I´m not so much interested in
anymore.
In these connections with earth it is important
that we have the feeling you have understanding for spiritual matters,
trying to explain them in a more scientific way. It has nothing to do
with traditional earth science really but trying to get into
explanations that go in this direction.
W: I think you perfectly know what
is going on here on earth, for instance the dramatic climate changes
that will with a certain probability result in disadvantages for special
areas. Is that something you already left behind?
RL. Yes, of course, the moment this topic is
coming up we are interested in it, but not in that way that we are
alarmed. This is the way earth will probably not end but maybe …
W: Develop.
RL: … develop into or it has to start all over
again, as we had that before every so many millions of years - once or
twice or three times, but we are not alarmed, because in a way it might
be even not that bad, if it all would start again.
(amusement on our side)
You know, what I mean? To get order out of the
chaos!
W: You have to be far away to have
that position, yes.
RL: What happens is based on your own decision.
And of course these developments and current happenings are strengthened
by human thoughts. So if you consider it as negative it will be
negative.
W: Sure.
RL: But I cannot agree that when you consider it
as positive it then will be positive. This is not what I would want to
say.
But, to let you have my answer to the question, we
are not alarmed by that. We just watch the outcome of that what anyhow
was expected. That is all. We do not watch it as you watch it every day
in the news, no, it is not that important anymore.
In astral plane, by the way, in fact the astral
spirits are not so much interested in earthly matters. Usually people
that pass over are as spirit happy if they at the beginning cope with
all new environment. So, earth is not so much of interest to them either
anymore. But there are others that are still interested and try to give
their inspirations (to earth) in both ways, negative and
positive.
W: Something comes to my mind
regarding the kind of communication through Feda (a medium's spirit
communicator Raymond was converting through with his father after his
passing over in 1915). I always have the feeling, and maybe you correct
me, if I'm wrong, that you somehow gave her pictures she then converted
into words, or was it mainly a kind of communication like we talk to
each other here on earth?
RL: Both. As spirit sometimes you are not able to
convert it into earthly words for what you want to bring over, and then
you give a picture, similar to what Adelheid gives Karin once in a while
when she cannot explain it with other means. It is a bit similar to
that. But others (other mediums) may not be able to
visualize, then you have to give symbols.
W: The time, this book was written
and you had the communication with your father, you were quite sure that
spiritualism and the continuation of life after death would be the “key
religion“ for more than 50% of humans. What would you consider the
reasons that things developed differently?
RL: As a spirit you are euphoric, you know what I
mean?! You want to convince everybody, you want to share the experiences
you made (after passing) with everybody (on earth),
it is more a wishful thinking.
W: All right.
RL: Of course, it could have come differently as
well. But as spirit at the beginning you are so much involved in
euphoric thinking, especially those that already experienced spirit
connections on earth. You want to believe that in 10 or 20 years time
everybody on earth must stick to it.
W: I would like to confirm that.
Even in our days sometimes we have the feeling that spirit world or some
spirits are quite overwhelmed and almost try to talk things to
existence. Do you know what I mean?
RL: Yes, I know what you mean.
W: And this enthusiasm, that
everybody is expecting results fast.
RL: Yes, often it is based on a wishful thinking
by humans and …
W: … the response from spirit
people goes into the same direction.
RL: Exactly, but not always. It has sometimes to
do with the medium as well, the medium's influence. Sometimes the medium
is not able to exactly get through what we actually want to say.
W: Is there something what in
principle you want to say, or do you have any special wish?
RL: Yes, I would like to say that I enjoyed
talking to you, and I hope I can do that again. Next time perhaps I will
give the word to my father, but not today. He is stepping back at the
moment, so that I have the privilege to talk to you.
I would wish for more groups that work in your
way. Of course all others are important as well to get the proof, some
people want to have, but this does not really make them a “better“
person, for I wouldn't want to say, your work directly makes you a
better person, but let's say, it leads you in stepping forward in
consciousness. This is what we over here would want to happen more
often.
W: This is maybe, since you were an
engineer with a more scientific thinking, this is something I am
thinking a lot of: what is necessary to really convince more people
about life after death compared to what has happened in the past. There
were some things that were extraordinary within the last century, but
unfortunately a lot of things happened just in the dark, and that makes
it very difficult to exclude the suspicion of fraud or cheating. Do you
have ideas to improve the situation? We do not have to discuss that
today.
RL: What I will do, I will discuss the topic over
here with my friends. Of course, these are discussions we already had,
but before I´ll give you an answer, I will discuss it with my
colleagues.
My thinking is similar to yours, Walter and Ernst.
You are persons that are not, let's say, only satisfied to know that
there is a spirit life, you want to know more. These were the things, I
would have liked to discuss with my father and others after I passed,
but at that time, it was not at all relevant, it was proof and evidence.
You almost had to dance on the table so that they believed, it was you.
This was hard. I think, it was a certain direction. Perhaps if at that
time more people already would have thought the way you do, it would
have helped the whole development, I just don't know.
W: Everything has to be seen at the
time it happens, and there is a certain development in it. I really
appreciate the efforts and how things developed, because you first have
to establish the fact: Yes, there is life after death! And then you
cover the field of how it functions.
RL: If it would have gone parallel, the proof and
the philosophical and scientific approach, I just don't know if that
would have helped.
W: When I look into the development
it was absolutely fascinating what happened in the time, you and your
father lived, in the séance rooms of the mediums. Things have changed
and we now have different experiences, we have events where computers
are involved, experiments have changed. I am always fascinated by that
what happened then, but I'm also fascinated by that what happens now,
for example, the communication between Thomas Harden, Ken Webster and
2109 – The Vertical Plane incident – and the computer messages received
by Adolf Homes and the messages in Luxemburg.
RL: Yes, and telephone connections.
W: Telephone calls.
RL: We get the information through the knowledge
and the mind of the people we are interested in, so also about what
happens in your house.
W: The point I want to make is, and
maybe we have a discussion on that later: What is necessary and what
makes sense, would it help, if you would have the ability, not you
personally, spirit world, to, let's say, speak on the daily news or
print a complete computer text in the papers or is that limited by your
abilities, or does it need our co-operation, or is there another law
above, that says, it has to be done in little portions?
RL: I know what you mean. In fact, it is part of
everything. The collective consciousness is not yet ready. It could be
done more, I'm sure, but the collective consciousness is not ready. It
is just not enough if, let's say, out of five billion people one billion
are believing or are just interested in things. It must be spread more
over.
W: And that takes time?
RL: And it does not look as if this would change,
the situation. You have Christians, you have Moslems, you have all kind
of people thinking in a different way.
W: Yes, sure.
RL: There is no collective consciousness! You know
what I mean?
W: Right. It is a strange idea, but
if, for example, our pope in Rome would levitate and fly from one side
to the other, back and forth and around in circles in front of a great
audience, this would be a major event.
RL: Yes, but he will not.
(amusement on our side)
RL: He would like to, but he will not.
W: What I want to say is, an
Engineering thinking going into extremes. This would be something where
the whole world would be quite astonished.
RL: Not the Moslems. They would deny it.
The American president, if the pope would carry
him up, then they would believe it, yes, because they both ”represent
heaven” - at the moment they just don't know who is near to heaven, the
pope or the president.
W: Sure …
RL: And then people would believe it, yes. Then
they would believe everything.
W: To put it in nicer, more normal
words, you would have possibilities to really demonstrate astonishing
things.
RL: Yes, sure, perhaps not myself, but others over
here would have the ability to do that.
W: But you are refraining from it?
RL: Yes, it would at the moment not reach – let's
say – the right people, even if we would do things like that. Those who
would have the power would misuse it, we know that. It would not be very
wise.
W: I'm not looking for giving power
to certain people, but more to demonstrate something like: Yes, there is
something beyond our normal thinking.
RL: It has nothing to do with wanting to give
people power, but we would give certain people power, even if we would
not intend to do that. They would misuse it. I´m sure if we would –
let's say – interrupt the television programme and spirit would talk, it
would perhaps reach some people deeply, others would deny it, and others
would take the opportunity to perhaps misuse it, it would inspire people
to fake it. With the technology and the power you have got in your
world, you can fake almost everything.
E/W: Yes, that's right.
RL: So, I don't think, this would be wise.
W: All right.
RL: Anyhow, we will discuss what can be done to
perhaps have a better understanding, a better connection to spirit
worlds, but I do not think, that we can give you just an instruction. It
has something to do with your humbleness, with your deep understanding
and the drive to understand, with your deep desire to understand, deep
wish to understand.
W: Yes.
RL: Some people only want to appear as if they
want to know. This is not enough, it must be a deep desire, a real deep
desire. For this desire you have to take the necessary steps.
W: It takes time.
RL: It takes time ...
W: Well, Raymond, we appreciate it.
RL: … and the necessary effort.
W: This also, yes.
RL: So, it was very, very interesting to talk to
you, and I must retire now to discuss some topics over here, and I would
like to say good bye to you tonight and we will talk again, if possible.
W: Now, Raymond, thank you very
much, and please give regards to all your friends around you.
E: Thank you.
W:: This was really a great
surprise, Claudius, Thank you very much.
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